US State: Boucher on Hussein's Fate if Captured Alive

BRIEFING WITH RICHARD BOUCHER
SPOKESMAN

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE

August 1, 2003

Excerpts

MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure to be here. I don't have any statements or announcements, so I'd be glad to take your questions.

. . .

Q: Regarding the idea of putting Saddam on trial if, in fact, he is ever apprehended, can you walk us through some of the thinking on why the thinking is going toward Iraqis trying him as opposed to, say, a U.N. tribunal type of --

MR. BOUCHER: Well, the policy that we reviewed in regard to all Iraqis that we decided on, really, before the war was that those responsible for atrocities against the Iraqi people should be brought before an Iraqi-led tribunal. I think it's important that Iraqis assume ownership of this process. We in the international community obviously have a responsibility to help the Iraqi people in the effort. And we should be prepared to participate as necessary.

So at this moment, it's probably difficult to assess the degree of international involvement that might be needed would range anywhere from minimal to substantial, financial to legal experts and judges. We would hope that all states, particularly those from the region, would be ready to contribute.

On the other hand, for crimes against U.S. personnel, we would investigate and prosecute those ourselves.

Q: Given that there are a number of senior regime leaders in U.S. custody, do you have any sense of when this process is going to actually be ready to start?

MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I can do that quite at this point. No, not yet.

Yeah, sir?

Q: On Iraq. Saddam's two daughters were given asylum in Jordan, and now how they slipped out of Iraq? And now, what is the guarantee that Saddam Hussein will not slip out of the Iraqi capital or out of Iraq just like his daughters have? And --

MR. BOUCHER: Well -- (chuckles) --

Q: -- are you still looking Saddam Hussein dead or alive? If he's alive and captured alive, will he be prosecuted in Iraq or here in the U.S.?

MR. BOUCHER: I just answered that question.

Q: What about his daughters? Do you have anything --

MR. BOUCHER: What about the daughters? No, I think I'd have to refer you to the Jordanians on the daughters for any information on Jordan's acceptance of Saddam Hussein's daughters and their families into Jordan.

. . .

Q: There was a lot of talk -- a lot of talk from here, from the Pentagon, from the White House all about Syria and people -- Iraqis gaining -- fleeing the fighting and going to Syria. These two daughters and their rather large brood came to Amman from Syria. Were these some of the people that you were talking about, or were you then at the time concerned about actual officials, not relatives?

MR. BOUCHER: I think when we spoke about this before, and our major concern with regard to the border with Syria and people going back and forth both ways over the border, was officials, people who had committed crimes as part of the regime, people who might have information on weapons of mass destruction, and in the other direction, outside foreigners who might want to come into Iraq and cause trouble. Those both remain concerns and remain issues that we discuss with the Syrian government to ensure that they keep their border sealed.

Q: So you don't really have a problem though with how they got into Syria or how they got --

MR. BOUCHER: I don't -- I don't think I have anything particular on the daughters or their families at this point. The Jordanians decided to accept them, and I'd leave it for the Jordanians to explain that.

George.

Q: Do you have anything on the story from Belgium, the Belgian --

Q: Just -- sorry -- (inaudible.)

MR. BOUCHER: Sure.

Q: But particularly, you don't have a problem and (this ?) doesn't have a problem with the fact that the daughters have been given refuge?

MR. BOUCHER: I'm not able to give you any sort of intelligence or law enforcement judgment on the daughters at this point. But at least for the initial explanation of how they got there and why they were accepted, I'd refer you to the Jordanian government.

Q: But I guess (this point ?) is you don't have an opinion on the acceptance by the Jordanians?

MR. BOUCHER: Not right now, no.

Q: Do you have anything on the story in Belgium where the senate gave final approval to a scaled-down war crimes law that the Belgian government hopes will repair relations with the U.S.?

MR. BOUCHER: We appreciate the Belgian government's efforts to change the law related to universal competence. Ultimately, as we've said, it's up to Belgium to solve the problem and thus to prevent the Belgian legal system from being a haven for politically motivated war crimes cases. We hope that the legislation will be effective in this regard. But whether the problem is resolved will be judged by the results, whether the complaints naming U.S. officials are dismissed and whether future ones are prevented.

Jonathan?

Q: Can we change the subject?

Q: Hold on, Jonathan. So in other words, you're not too impressed.

MR. BOUCHER: No. We appreciate their efforts. We appreciate the changes that they've made, the effort they've put into it. Does it solve the problem? We'll have to see.

. . .

Q: Can you say anything about talks that the U.S. may be in with Iran on getting their hands on some al Qaeda figures that may be in Iran?

MR. BOUCHER: I think all I would say on that is that Iran is very aware of our position that they should not offer any safe haven or harbor to al Qaeda terrorists and leaders. We have made clear that we believe there are figures in Iran who have offered such safe haven or other support and that there were senior al Qaeda leaders in Iran who were involved in some way in the bombings in Saudi Arabia. So, that position has been made clear in a number of ways to Iran. We would expect them to act in accordance with the U.N. resolutions that require all states not to provide any support or safe harbor for terrorists.

Q: Richard, as you know, Iran has come out publicly saying that it is holding in custody both big and little fish, in terms of the al Qaeda hierarchy. Are you saying that there are in addition to these individuals, the U.S. believes there are others who are being held outside of prison, who are being allowed to operate?

MR. BOUCHER: I don't -- I don't think they've actually identified the individuals and --

Q: They haven't identified them.

MR. BOUCHER: -- nor have identified the form of custody or detention that these people might be in, whether it's house arrest or ankle bracelets or actual prisons. What we have said, I think for some time, is we're concerned about the presence of al Qaeda members in Iran. We believe that some elements inside the Iranian regime have helped al Qaeda terrorists with transit or safe haven inside Iran. And the senior al Qaeda terrorists inside Iran played a part in the planning of the May 12th Riyadh bombings. That's a position we've made clear before. That's the information that we have.

Iran has recently said that they have some people, including senior al Qaeda leaders, and said that they're in custody, but I don't believe Iran has said who they are, where they are, how they're being held and what they intend to do with them. Iran should act in accordance with the U.N. resolutions, cooperate with states who are investigating crimes like the bombing in Riyadh, and not offer any safe haven or harbor.

Q: Is that being done -- those allegations that you laid out there -- with the government's knowledge? I mean, is it possible that there are Iranian citizens who are helping, much as they are in countries around the world -- that are helping al Qaeda operatives. But -- (inaudible).

MR. BOUCHER: I said some elements inside the Iranian regime.

Q: (Off mike) -- made clear in a number of ways. Have U.S. officials met with Iranian officials to talk about this problem?

MR. BOUCHER: I can't get into any more detail of this. You know, there were some discussions with the Iranians before about al Qaeda and the terrorism issues.

Q: Before, but not about these specific persons, no? Or were there --

MR. BOUCHER: What are these specific persons? I mean, are they the ones that we believe to be there, or the ones the Iranians admitted to having? I don't know who the ones are who the Iranians admitted handling, so I can't tell you what these prisoners might be. But I think we just -- I have to leave it at just saying that we've made clear our views to the Iranians in a number of ways including public statements like the one I'm making now.

Q: (Off mike.)

MR. BOUCHER: Sure.

Q: I didn't quite catch your wording. You said that some elements in the Iranian regime had offered safe haven and consul.

MR. BOUCHER: Have helped al Qaeda terrorists transit or find safe haven inside Iran.

Q: Yes, and then some of these al Qaeda people are involved in the bombing.

Are you saying that some of these people were offered safe haven or were helped with safe haven, the bombers, the people who organized the bombing? Or are they -- (inaudible) -- groups of people?

MR. BOUCHER: I don't know that I can define those groups any more than I have.

Q: And what's the time scale for this safe haven --(inaudible) -- business? I mean, is this something recent or is it --

MR. BOUCHER: No. The issue has arisen from time to time ever since September 11th and the subsequent ending of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

Q: Yes, but more recently as well?

MR. BOUCHER: So it continues to this day.

Matt?

. . .

Q: (Off mike) -- Mr. Yachi (sp) and Deputy Secretary Armitage, is there any differentiation between the non-combat area and the combat area for the Japanese Self Defense Forces to be sent to Iraq?

MR. BOUCHER: I think that'll be something that the Japanese government will be explaining at the appropriate time, what the role of their forces would be.

Certainly we've welcomed the passage of legislation that could allow them to deploy. It's up to the Japanese government to decide when, where and how of any possible deployment.

Q: And also, the timing is also not decided yet, right?

MR. BOUCHER: It's up to the Japanese government to decide when, where and how.

Q: Thank you.

MR. BOUCHER: Okay. Thanks.

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Search WMD profiles Iraqi entities of concern Iraq's suppliers UN documents Government documents Controlled items Perspectives	BRIEFING WITH RICHARD BOUCHER SPOKESMAN U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE August 1, 2003 *Excerpts* MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure to be here. I don't have any statements or announcements, so I'd be glad to take your questions. . . . Q: Regarding the idea of putting Saddam on trial if, in fact, he is ever apprehended, can you walk us through some of the thinking on why the thinking is going toward Iraqis trying him as opposed to, say, a U.N. tribunal type of -- MR. BOUCHER: Well, the policy that we reviewed in regard to all Iraqis that we decided on, really, before the war was that those responsible for atrocities against the Iraqi people should be brought before an Iraqi-led tribunal. I think it's important that Iraqis assume ownership of this process. We in the international community obviously have a responsibility to help the Iraqi people in the effort. And we should be prepared to participate as necessary. So at this moment, it's probably difficult to assess the degree of international involvement that might be needed would range anywhere from minimal to substantial, financial to legal experts and judges. We would hope that all states, particularly those from the region, would be ready to contribute. On the other hand, for crimes against U.S. personnel, we would investigate and prosecute those ourselves. Q: Given that there are a number of senior regime leaders in U.S. custody, do you have any sense of when this process is going to actually be ready to start? MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I can do that quite at this point. No, not yet. Yeah, sir? Q: On Iraq. Saddam's two daughters were given asylum in Jordan, and now how they slipped out of Iraq? And now, what is the guarantee that Saddam Hussein will not slip out of the Iraqi capital or out of Iraq just like his daughters have? And -- MR. BOUCHER: Well -- (chuckles) -- Q: -- are you still looking Saddam Hussein dead or alive? If he's alive and captured alive, will he be prosecuted in Iraq or here in the U.S.? MR. BOUCHER: I just answered that question. Q: What about his daughters? Do you have anything -- MR. BOUCHER: What about the daughters? No, I think I'd have to refer you to the Jordanians on the daughters for any information on Jordan's acceptance of Saddam Hussein's daughters and their families into Jordan. . . . Q: There was a lot of talk -- a lot of talk from here, from the Pentagon, from the White House all about Syria and people -- Iraqis gaining -- fleeing the fighting and going to Syria. These two daughters and their rather large brood came to Amman from Syria. Were these some of the people that you were talking about, or were you then at the time concerned about actual officials, not relatives? MR. BOUCHER: I think when we spoke about this before, and our major concern with regard to the border with Syria and people going back and forth both ways over the border, was officials, people who had committed crimes as part of the regime, people who might have information on weapons of mass destruction, and in the other direction, outside foreigners who might want to come into Iraq and cause trouble. Those both remain concerns and remain issues that we discuss with the Syrian government to ensure that they keep their border sealed. Q: So you don't really have a problem though with how they got into Syria or how they got -- MR. BOUCHER: I don't -- I don't think I have anything particular on the daughters or their families at this point. The Jordanians decided to accept them, and I'd leave it for the Jordanians to explain that. George. Q: Do you have anything on the story from Belgium, the Belgian -- Q: Just -- sorry -- (inaudible.) MR. BOUCHER: Sure. Q: But particularly, you don't have a problem and (this ?) doesn't have a problem with the fact that the daughters have been given refuge? MR. BOUCHER: I'm not able to give you any sort of intelligence or law enforcement judgment on the daughters at this point. But at least for the initial explanation of how they got there and why they were accepted, I'd refer you to the Jordanian government. Q: But I guess (this point ?) is you don't have an opinion on the acceptance by the Jordanians? MR. BOUCHER: Not right now, no. Q: Do you have anything on the story in Belgium where the senate gave final approval to a scaled-down war crimes law that the Belgian government hopes will repair relations with the U.S.? MR. BOUCHER: We appreciate the Belgian government's efforts to change the law related to universal competence. Ultimately, as we've said, it's up to Belgium to solve the problem and thus to prevent the Belgian legal system from being a haven for politically motivated war crimes cases. We hope that the legislation will be effective in this regard. But whether the problem is resolved will be judged by the results, whether the complaints naming U.S. officials are dismissed and whether future ones are prevented. Jonathan? Q: Can we change the subject? Q: Hold on, Jonathan. So in other words, you're not too impressed. MR. BOUCHER: No. We appreciate their efforts. We appreciate the changes that they've made, the effort they've put into it. Does it solve the problem? We'll have to see. . . . Q: Can you say anything about talks that the U.S. may be in with Iran on getting their hands on some al Qaeda figures that may be in Iran? MR. BOUCHER: I think all I would say on that is that Iran is very aware of our position that they should not offer any safe haven or harbor to al Qaeda terrorists and leaders. We have made clear that we believe there are figures in Iran who have offered such safe haven or other support and that there were senior al Qaeda leaders in Iran who were involved in some way in the bombings in Saudi Arabia. So, that position has been made clear in a number of ways to Iran. We would expect them to act in accordance with the U.N. resolutions that require all states not to provide any support or safe harbor for terrorists. Q: Richard, as you know, Iran has come out publicly saying that it is holding in custody both big and little fish, in terms of the al Qaeda hierarchy. Are you saying that there are in addition to these individuals, the U.S. believes there are others who are being held outside of prison, who are being allowed to operate? MR. BOUCHER: I don't -- I don't think they've actually identified the individuals and -- Q: They haven't identified them. MR. BOUCHER: -- nor have identified the form of custody or detention that these people might be in, whether it's house arrest or ankle bracelets or actual prisons. What we have said, I think for some time, is we're concerned about the presence of al Qaeda members in Iran. We believe that some elements inside the Iranian regime have helped al Qaeda terrorists with transit or safe haven inside Iran. And the senior al Qaeda terrorists inside Iran played a part in the planning of the May 12th Riyadh bombings. That's a position we've made clear before. That's the information that we have. Iran has recently said that they have some people, including senior al Qaeda leaders, and said that they're in custody, but I don't believe Iran has said who they are, where they are, how they're being held and what they intend to do with them. Iran should act in accordance with the U.N. resolutions, cooperate with states who are investigating crimes like the bombing in Riyadh, and not offer any safe haven or harbor. Q: Is that being done -- those allegations that you laid out there -- with the government's knowledge? I mean, is it possible that there are Iranian citizens who are helping, much as they are in countries around the world -- that are helping al Qaeda operatives. But -- (inaudible). MR. BOUCHER: I said some elements inside the Iranian regime. Q: (Off mike) -- made clear in a number of ways. Have U.S. officials met with Iranian officials to talk about this problem? MR. BOUCHER: I can't get into any more detail of this. You know, there were some discussions with the Iranians before about al Qaeda and the terrorism issues. Q: Before, but not about these specific persons, no? Or were there -- MR. BOUCHER: What are these specific persons? I mean, are they the ones that we believe to be there, or the ones the Iranians admitted to having? I don't know who the ones are who the Iranians admitted handling, so I can't tell you what these prisoners might be. But I think we just -- I have to leave it at just saying that we've made clear our views to the Iranians in a number of ways including public statements like the one I'm making now. Q: (Off mike.) MR. BOUCHER: Sure. Q: I didn't quite catch your wording. You said that some elements in the Iranian regime had offered safe haven and consul. MR. BOUCHER: Have helped al Qaeda terrorists transit or find safe haven inside Iran. Q: Yes, and then some of these al Qaeda people are involved in the bombing. Are you saying that some of these people were offered safe haven or were helped with safe haven, the bombers, the people who organized the bombing? Or are they -- (inaudible) -- groups of people? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know that I can define those groups any more than I have. Q: And what's the time scale for this safe haven --(inaudible) -- business? I mean, is this something recent or is it -- MR. BOUCHER: No. The issue has arisen from time to time ever since September 11th and the subsequent ending of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Q: Yes, but more recently as well? MR. BOUCHER: So it continues to this day. Matt? . . . Q: (Off mike) -- Mr. Yachi (sp) and Deputy Secretary Armitage, is there any differentiation between the non-combat area and the combat area for the Japanese Self Defense Forces to be sent to Iraq? MR. BOUCHER: I think that'll be something that the Japanese government will be explaining at the appropriate time, what the role of their forces would be. Certainly we've welcomed the passage of legislation that could allow them to deploy. It's up to the Japanese government to decide when, where and how of any possible deployment. Q: And also, the timing is also not decided yet, right? MR. BOUCHER: It's up to the Japanese government to decide when, where and how. Q: Thank you. MR. BOUCHER: Okay. Thanks.