DOD: Excerpted Briefing - Iraqi No-Fly Zones

(begin excerpts)

Q: Has this -- the Iraqi commercial flights that have begun recently represent a Iraqi success in further eroding the effectiveness of the no-fly zone?

BACON: I think you'd have to distinguish between the sanctions and the no-fly zone; the sanctions, economic sanctions, that were imposed to force Iraq to meet certain provisions of U.N. Security Council Resolution -- I think it's 688. The no-fly zone was imposed to keep Iraq from attacking its neighbors or attacking its own people; namely, the Shi'a in the South and Kurdish people in the North.

We think the no-fly zone has been successful in preventing Iraq from -- certainly from mounting attacks against its neighbors, but also from attacking its own people. And we think that they will continue to be successful, even if Iraq continues these civilian flights, the Baghdad to Basra shuttle, for instance.

Q: Doesn't it in any way affect the enforcement of the no-fly zone, complicate it?

BACON: The purpose of the no-fly zone is to prevent Iraq from mobilizing forces to attack its neighbors or its own people. We do not think that these civilian flights will interfere with that at all,
that we can discriminate against -- we can discriminate between military flights and mobilization flights on the one hand, and civilian flights on the other.

Chris?

Q: When the no-fly zones were first announced, it was said that they barred all flights, fixed-wing and rotary flights, below the 32nd Parallel, originally, and above the 36th Parallel. When was it
interpreted to mean that civilian flights, such as the ones that have now begun, were not included in the air exclusion and --

BACON: Well, the purpose of the no-fly zones has not changed in the least, and that is to prevent military mobilizations. In 1997, Iraq did use some helicopters to fly pilgrims to and -- at least from the hajj, back from the hajj, and we allowed that and made it very clear that we weren't going to shoot down civilian aircraft that didn't pose a military threat to Iraqi neighbors or to its own people.

That's our policy. It was our policy in '97, it's our policy today.

Q: Well, how do you know that these planes are, in fact, civilian planes? Aren't they converted military transport planes?

BACON: Well, they've used a variety of planes. They've used some helicopters, they've used some smaller planes we would call puddle jumpers, and they have repainted some IL-76s to use to carry passengers. And I think they've used them at least once, an IL-76, on the way -- from Baghdad to Mosul.

These flights tend to go on a -- they've only been doing it for three days, but they tend to be on a fairly predictable pattern. They leave in the morning from Baghdad, they come back in the afternoon. We can clearly distinguish between the civilian flights, both by the size of
the planes and by their routes and other ways, and military flights. And we'll continue to do that.

Q: Do you receive any notification from the government of Iraq about the flight plans or flight paths of these aircraft?

BACON: No, except they are filing -- or following normal procedures and filing internally their flight plans, et cetera.

Yes?

Q: Ken, you said you can discriminate between the civilian aircraft and other things. Is there any danger to those civilian aircraft, given the activity of surface-to-air batteries and things like that?

BACON: Well, that's actually a very interesting point. The Iraqis have been firing wildly at times at the coalition U.S. and British planes enforcing the no-fly zone. And obviously, there is some risk that, due to lack of communications or over-enthusiasm, that they might fire at one of their own planes. We don't -- we are being very careful to deconflict civilian from military planes. We hope they are being as careful.

Q: Doesn't it, though, make it more complicated? If Iraq were to continue to send more and more civilian planes into the no-fly zone, which you've said the United States would not shoot down, for obvious reasons, doesn't that then make it more complicated in enforcing the no-fly zone ban against military aircraft?

BACON: It's easy to distinguish between fighter aircraft, clearly, and large transport aircraft; civilian transport aircraft. We think that we have, with our radar assets, our surveillance assets in the area, the ability to distinguish. And we have spent a lot of time monitoring Iraqi air traffic and a lot of time monitoring Iraqi behavior, and we think that we know enough to make those distinctions.

Q: Have you had any change in procedure or policy to ensure that there isn't any mistake, that U.S. pilots don't accidentally shoot down any civilian aircraft?

BACON: Well, it's long been our procedure and policy to avoid shooting down Iraqi civilian aircraft, so there has been no change in that policy.

Q: But, I mean, in terms of the procedures. Have you done -- now that there's another complicating factor, has anything been done to -- a new procedure instituted there does have to be a visual identification of an aircraft before it could be shot down? Have there have been any
changes to ensure that an accident doesn't happen?

BACON: There have been appropriate changes made to make sure an accident does not happen.

Q: Can you tell us anything more about these changes?

BACON: No.

Q: But what's been the pattern recently on military incursions from -- (inaudible)?

BACON: I don't recall seeing any information about military incursions for some time. Now, the incursions have been episodic, when they have occurred, and they have tended to be very -- very narrow, short incursions, where they dart back and forth across the boundaries to the no-fly zone. But I -- in the information I've been seeing, I haven't seen any evidence of incursions recently.

Yes?

Q: Is the whole fall military exercise cycle, is that over with in Iraq? Are things back to where they normally are? Can you give us an update on that?

BACON: Pretty much over. As you know, some troops, including the Hammurabi Division, had moved southwest of Baghdad several weeks ago, and they have largely now returned to their garrisons. So I'd say that's pretty much over.

(end excerpts)

As of August 2006, Iraq Watch is no longer being updated. Click here for more information.

Search WMD profiles Iraqi entities of concern Iraq's suppliers UN documents Government documents Controlled items Perspectives	Department of Defense Briefing by Spokesman Kenneth Bacon Excerpts on Iraq 7 November 2000 (begin excerpts) Q: Has this -- the Iraqi commercial flights that have begun recently represent a Iraqi success in further eroding the effectiveness of the no-fly zone? BACON: I think you'd have to distinguish between the sanctions and the no-fly zone; the sanctions, economic sanctions, that were imposed to force Iraq to meet certain provisions of U.N. Security Council Resolution -- I think it's 688. The no-fly zone was imposed to keep Iraq from attacking its neighbors or attacking its own people; namely, the Shi'a in the South and Kurdish people in the North. We think the no-fly zone has been successful in preventing Iraq from -- certainly from mounting attacks against its neighbors, but also from attacking its own people. And we think that they will continue to be successful, even if Iraq continues these civilian flights, the Baghdad to Basra shuttle, for instance. Q: Doesn't it in any way affect the enforcement of the no-fly zone, complicate it? BACON: The purpose of the no-fly zone is to prevent Iraq from mobilizing forces to attack its neighbors or its own people. We do not think that these civilian flights will interfere with that at all, that we can discriminate against -- we can discriminate between military flights and mobilization flights on the one hand, and civilian flights on the other. Chris? Q: When the no-fly zones were first announced, it was said that they barred all flights, fixed-wing and rotary flights, below the 32nd Parallel, originally, and above the 36th Parallel. When was it interpreted to mean that civilian flights, such as the ones that have now begun, were not included in the air exclusion and -- BACON: Well, the purpose of the no-fly zones has not changed in the least, and that is to prevent military mobilizations. In 1997, Iraq did use some helicopters to fly pilgrims to and -- at least from the hajj, back from the hajj, and we allowed that and made it very clear that we weren't going to shoot down civilian aircraft that didn't pose a military threat to Iraqi neighbors or to its own people. That's our policy. It was our policy in '97, it's our policy today. Q: Well, how do you know that these planes are, in fact, civilian planes? Aren't they converted military transport planes? BACON: Well, they've used a variety of planes. They've used some helicopters, they've used some smaller planes we would call puddle jumpers, and they have repainted some IL-76s to use to carry passengers. And I think they've used them at least once, an IL-76, on the way -- from Baghdad to Mosul. These flights tend to go on a -- they've only been doing it for three days, but they tend to be on a fairly predictable pattern. They leave in the morning from Baghdad, they come back in the afternoon. We can clearly distinguish between the civilian flights, both by the size of the planes and by their routes and other ways, and military flights. And we'll continue to do that. Q: Do you receive any notification from the government of Iraq about the flight plans or flight paths of these aircraft? BACON: No, except they are filing -- or following normal procedures and filing internally their flight plans, et cetera. Yes? Q: Ken, you said you can discriminate between the civilian aircraft and other things. Is there any danger to those civilian aircraft, given the activity of surface-to-air batteries and things like that? BACON: Well, that's actually a very interesting point. The Iraqis have been firing wildly at times at the coalition U.S. and British planes enforcing the no-fly zone. And obviously, there is some risk that, due to lack of communications or over-enthusiasm, that they might fire at one of their own planes. We don't -- we are being very careful to deconflict civilian from military planes. We hope they are being as careful. Q: Doesn't it, though, make it more complicated? If Iraq were to continue to send more and more civilian planes into the no-fly zone, which you've said the United States would not shoot down, for obvious reasons, doesn't that then make it more complicated in enforcing the no-fly zone ban against military aircraft? BACON: It's easy to distinguish between fighter aircraft, clearly, and large transport aircraft; civilian transport aircraft. We think that we have, with our radar assets, our surveillance assets in the area, the ability to distinguish. And we have spent a lot of time monitoring Iraqi air traffic and a lot of time monitoring Iraqi behavior, and we think that we know enough to make those distinctions. Q: Have you had any change in procedure or policy to ensure that there isn't any mistake, that U.S. pilots don't accidentally shoot down any civilian aircraft? BACON: Well, it's long been our procedure and policy to avoid shooting down Iraqi civilian aircraft, so there has been no change in that policy. Q: But, I mean, in terms of the procedures. Have you done -- now that there's another complicating factor, has anything been done to -- a new procedure instituted there does have to be a visual identification of an aircraft before it could be shot down? Have there have been any changes to ensure that an accident doesn't happen? BACON: There have been appropriate changes made to make sure an accident does not happen. Q: Can you tell us anything more about these changes? BACON: No. Q: But what's been the pattern recently on military incursions from -- (inaudible)? BACON: I don't recall seeing any information about military incursions for some time. Now, the incursions have been episodic, when they have occurred, and they have tended to be very -- very narrow, short incursions, where they dart back and forth across the boundaries to the no-fly zone. But I -- in the information I've been seeing, I haven't seen any evidence of incursions recently. Yes? Q: Is the whole fall military exercise cycle, is that over with in Iraq? Are things back to where they normally are? Can you give us an update on that? BACON: Pretty much over. As you know, some troops, including the Hammurabi Division, had moved southwest of Baghdad several weeks ago, and they have largely now returned to their garrisons. So I'd say that's pretty much over. (end excerpts)