INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR JOSEPH BIDEN
AND REPRESENTATIVE HENRY HYDE

CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer

Source: U.S. State Department

February 17, 2002

Excerpt

BLITZER: Welcome back to Late Edition. We are talking with Delaware Senator Joe Biden and Illinois Congressman Henry Hyde, two powerful chairmen on Capitol Hill. And, Senator Biden, how worried should Saddam Hussein be right now that the Bush administration is about to take steps to bring him down?

BIDEN: Well, I think he should be worried that there is a real resolve on the part of the Bush administration, and many of us in the Congress, to see one of two of things happen: One, either a radical change in his conduct, which I think is unlikely; or, ultimately, taking him down.

Again, here, the question though is, Wolf, how we go about doing it. And I think if the president is methodical in laying out the proof that we have that Saddam is continuing to engage in producing weapons of mass destruction, and tries first to put pressure on the international community to insist upon the U.N. resolution being imposed, that is sanctions policies relating to inspectors, as well, I think he can begin to build some consensus for whatever action is ultimately taken.

But I think, Wolf, he has to lay out -- when I met with Vedrine up in New York at the Davos Conference, the foreign minister of France, and others, what they are really worried about is whether or not the president, if we go in and take out Saddam, if he's willing stay the course and keep American forces, with others, in there to keep that country together.

Because there is not a single, informed person I have ever spoken to, for or against moving into Iraq, that thinks you can move into Iraq now, take down Saddam Hussein, and have any real prospect that there will be a unified, central government that is able to maintain control of the Kurds in the north and the Shi'as in the south and the Sunnis in the middle, et cetera. And so, part of the problem here is the president has yet not laid out for our allies his vision for what an Iraq would look like without Saddam and what part we're willing to play in that.

BLITZER: Chairman Hyde, what option would you favor? I know you support regime change, as it's called, in Baghdad. Which option do you favor -- military action, covert action, political action, economic action a la the sanctions, if, in fact, they can be strengthened? What's your option?

HYDE: Well, of course, ideally, if we had an underground in Iraq, similar to the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, supporting the underground, the opposition, the internal opposition, is to me the procedure of choice. That is an option that is being worked on. All of these options are under consideration.

But what is, it seems to me, quite clear we cannot tolerate Saddam Hussein developing nuclear weapons, biotechnical weapons, the means to deliver them, because he will use them when he has them.

And there comes a time when the message has to be sent. Now, it seems to me that what President Bush has been doing, sending a very strong and direct message: This whole mess could be resolved if inspectors were permitted to go into Iraq to determine whether or not weapons of mass destruction are being constructed. The fact that Saddam Hussein resists so strongly indicates he does have something to conceal, and it's something we ought to worried about.

BLITZER: But, you know, Chairman Hyde, a lot of experts say that even if inspectors were allowed to get back into Iraq -- and they haven't been there in three years, those U.N. weapons inspection teams -- that they would have a very hard time, if not an impossible time, finding all the evidence of weapons of mass destruction.

HYDE: Well, you're right. And we've learned of the existence of mobile laboratories, where they move these things around, so once you have seen them, they move somewhere else, and then you don't see them again.

I'm assuming that a regime of inspection could be developed that would be exhaustive and would be effective. If not, then we're all wasting our time. And the rest of the European countries who trade with Iraq had better realize that something has to happen and fairly soon.

BIDEN: Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes?

BIDEN: You have a lot of experience in Iraq. You know the place. You were there when we went in the first time. And so what I'm out to tell you is no news.

You heard the secretary of state refer to the Iraqi opposition. I met with the Iraqi opposition last week. Mr. Chalabi, who has very skillfully put together a coalition of Shi'as, Kurds, Sunnis. They've been in the United States. I've met with them many times. I met with them last week.

And they came to me, including some of the religious leadership among the Shi'as, who are part of this opposition, and they said, "Senator, Mr. Chairman, we need help." And I thought, well, that's unusual, what are they asking me for help for? He said, "Well, we can't get from the administration a commitment not only to help us learn to fight and train us, but to teach us how to run the civil operation."

They want, now, for the administration to begin to train them on the way bureaucracies function, on how to keep those oil fields running down in the southeast and so on and so forth.

So, even they are of a view that it takes more than just taking down Saddam. And that's the part that has our Arab friends and not- so-friendly people upset and the Europeans upset.

Look, if you take a look at Afghanistan, we went in, have done an incredible job. You've seen it. The chairman's seen it. I've been there and seen it.

Now, the real hard part has begun. Now, the president of the United States says we're not going to keep American forces as part of a peacekeeping force. And the Brits are saying, well, if you're not in, we're not in.

Well, they, the Europeans, extrapolate an unwillingness, as enunciated initially not to stay in Afghanistan till the Karzai government's up and running, and say, my lord, what happens in Iraq if it's taken down? This is a modern country, a wealthy country, a country with larger population.

And so what they're really looking for is a plan, even the people who we want to go in and fight like Iraqi, like Chalabi and the Iraqi liberation forces, they're looking for a plan.

I'm not saying we don't have one. If we have one, you'll see a lot of the criticism dissipate.

BLITZER: All right, we're going to take another quick break...

HYDE: Wolf, Wolf?

BLITZER: Go ahead, Chairman.

HYDE: I just wanted to agree completely with Senator Biden. That's the next move. And the president ought to make a speech emphasizing that we're going to stay the course for as long as necessary. I think he's exactly right.

BLITZER: All right, we're going to take a quick break.

One correction, though. I was not there the last time the U.S. moved in against Iraq. That was some of my other colleagues here at CNN, but maybe I'll be there the next time, if in fact that happens.

We're going to take a quick break. A lot more of our conversation. We'll move on to Iran, North Korea. And where is Osama bin Laden, when we come back.