INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR JOSEPH BIDEN

Interview by Robert Novak and Al Hunt
CNN

Washington, D.C.

13 April 2002

Excerpts

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HUNT: Mr. Chairman, the Bush administration has made little secret of its desire to topple Saddam Hussein. Some say now, with the Mideast situation, that that has to be put on hold. Others, including the Wall Street editorial page this week, say what we ought to do is get out of the Middle East and march to Baghdad now. Which is your view?

BIDEN: My view is the administration does not have a plan sufficient to act now. They will not move now. I think that they have been chastened by the realization of how deeply suspect the legitimacy of our friends are in the region -- and that is the Saudis, the Egyptians and others -- and how much each of those states and those leaders, view themselves as being in jeopardy.

So I think they're balancing a whole different set of concerns right now. I don't think they have, nor should they, give the objective of toppling Saddam. But I would be dumbfounded if, A, this split administration on this issue has reached a game plan yet. And, B, I believe to the extent they're moving in that direction, that has been put more on hold.

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NOVAK: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Netanyahu, former Prime Minister Netanyahu, when he was on Capitol Hill this past week, told several senators that he thought that the Iraqis had weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons, and that they could be transported to this country in a suitcase. You have access to classified information. Do you think that's a realistic threat or realistic probability?

BIDEN: Let me make sure I got the question. I'll parse it two ways. One, weapons of mass destruction...

NOVAK: Nuclear.

BIDEN: ... chemical or biological or nuclear?

NOVAK: Nuclear.

BIDEN: Nuclear, in a suitcase, no.

NOVAK: So you think that was not a correct...

BIDEN: That is not a correct assessment as to where the Iraqis are at this moment. It is a correct assessment of what their desire is, but not where they are at this moment.

NOVAK: What is the reason for U.S. policy to remove Saddam Hussein? Is it because of the way he treats his own people, is that the measurement? Or is he a threat to our national security?

BIDEN: I think he's a long-term threat and a short-term threat to our national security. I can't picture a circumstance where, five years from now, he's still in play, he's still in power -- nothing has occurred in terms of curtailing his quest for weapons of mass destruction -- and the world being safer. And so, it seems to me that it is very much in our interest that he no longer be in power.

But the biggest deal and the reason why the Arabs, as well as the Europeans, are concerned about our threat is that they have no threat we can take them down, they just wonder whether we're going to stick around and make sure there's a nation that is viable after, in fact, we take him down. And they're looking at Afghanistan and saying, "My lord, they won't even stay there. What's going to happen when you take Saddam down? Do the Kurds establish an independent state? Do the Shi'as move? Do the Iranians move?"

And so, my plea to the president was, "Mr. President, lay our your vision privately to these leaders as to what you are willing to commit to, not just in terms of taking him down, but with multilateral help, what you're committed to as to what you think Iraq should look like five years from now."

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