Italy MFA: Frattini on Saddam Hussein, the ruthless dictator

'Saddam has violated all the rules and
persecuted his people'

INTERVIEW WITH FRANCO FRATTINI
ITALIAN FOREIGN MINISTER

ITALIAN MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

March 29, 2003

Q. Is Italy a country at war?

A. Certainly not Italy. We want peace and we respect our international commitments.

Q. Does Italy have it in for the Iraqis?

A. Absolutely not. If anything, we have it in for Saddam Hussein, a bloodthirsty dictator who murdered Iraqi children with chemical weapons.

Q. Part of the left, the Democratic Party of the Left (DS) and the Communists, argue that Bush and Saddam are the same thing, since they are both murderers.

A. That is an obscenity. Saddam Hussein has violated all the rules of international law, starting with the most important: he has used weapons against his own people and reduced them to hunger. Instead, Bush is the President of a State that has and is bringing freedom to the world.

Q. Footballer Gianluca Vialli has said that without America, people would be speaking German in Europe today.

A. There's no doubt about it. There are thousands of American boys who gave their lives to free us from Nazism. I was born afterwards, but that is engraved in my mind. It's something that all Italians should remember.

Q. Is this war legitimate, or not?

A. It is, because we mustn't forget that Saddam Hussein violated sixteen UN resolutions over the last twelve years, making a mockery of international consensus. The last resolution, number 1441, provided for "serious consequences" should Iraq fail to disarm. Saddam has indeed refused, and he possesses chemical weapons and weapons of mass destruction. This crisis is his responsibility.

Q. Over the last few days, about a thousand American parachutists left for Kurdistan from an American base on Italian territory. DS MP Luciano Violante calls that an act of co-belligerence.

A. Those are the only arguments the opposition knows how to use. What should we have done? Arrest them and put them in prison? Let's be serious. The Italian Parliament voted to authorise use of the bases. The parachutists left to take over airports where there are not even any war operations. The Government will respond to Parliament next week. We have nothing to hide.

Q. Are the recent peace demonstrations helping peace or helping Saddam Hussein?

A. They certainly didn't help to disarm Iraq, because Saddam didn't disarm when he saw them. I love peace, like all sensible people in this world. But I would have liked to see some signs or banners in those demonstration saying that Saddam Hussein is a murderous dictator.

Q. Why, in all the 35 years of dictatorship in Iraq, didn't the left ever hold a demonstration against Saddam Hussein?

A. You'll have to ask the left, where there are some who even say that Saddam and Bush are the same thing. I have a great deal of respect for demonstrations and for the young people who take part. But I am offended that these demonstrations are exploited by those hoping to glean a few votes at election time. The desire for peace is a noble sentiment that lives in all of us and should not be exploited. We cannot use it for base political ends, printing posters with the candidate's face and the rainbow colours of the peace flag next to it. I too say "long live peace", but I don't use it as a slogan to buy votes.

Q. Marcello Pera, President of the Senate, has been reiterating his concern over a new wave of anti-Americanism for weeks.

A. He's perfectly right. Much of the opposition is permeated with anti-American feeling. I remember a demonstration twenty years ago to get rid of American bases and to refuse installation of Euro-missiles to defend Italian territory where Soviet missiles were pointed. Today, the old left of twenty years is being resurrected, and what concerns me the most is the absence of the voice of a reformist left, the left that was at the Government until two years ago. Where have all the reformists gone?

Q. That left sent many of our soldiers into war without UN approval. Today, they use that as a banner.

A. That's right. Kosovo was bombed without any decision on the part of the United Nations. And when we were part of the opposition in Parliament, we voted in favour, giving the D'Alema government a majority of votes that it otherwise would have been without. The point was to free the former Yugoslavia from the tyranny of Milosevic and his ethnic cleaning. We behaved like Italians back then. But where is the left that was at the government? I no longer see it.

Q. How can one be against Saddam Hussein and in favour of peace?

A. Being in favour of peace means freeing the Iraqi people. It means restoring their country to them after the dictatorship falls. The left calls it a war for oil. I might point out that the US is self-sufficient in terms of oil supplies, and that 75% of Iraqi oil is purchased by France and 20% by Russia. More than their love of peace, it would seem that France and Russia are against the war because they are afraid of losing their friendly supplier. The truth is that oil has nothing to do with this. The Coalition wants to free Iraq. All it wants is simply to put an end to the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein and leave the Iraqi people free to choose their leaders. Furthermore, says the left, it is a war for the sale of arms. I might point out that, from 1973 to 1991, Russia sold 31,800 million dollars worth of arms to Saddam, France sold 9,240 million dollars, China sold 5,500 million and American only 5 million. Again, more than love of peace, it seems to be desperation for the loss of an excellent customer. No one will ever convince me that the United States and Great Britain went to risk the lives of their young men and women for business. And I repeat: all they want to do is to end a bloodthirsty dictatorship.

Q. Italy has just expelled four Iraqi diplomats.

A. According to Massimo D'Alema, we were following orders from the Americans. D'Alema was Prime Minister, but I think he has forgotten what running the government means. Since the world began, diplomats who carry out unwelcome activities incompatible with their rank as diplomats have always been expelled.

Q. Were they spies?

A. Their activities compromised the security of the country, as our secret services had been telling us for some time. Italy invited those people to leave the country, in the same way that Germany, Austria and Finland recently did, even though they are countries that have declared themselves against the war.

Q. Is demanding the end of the war while it is still going on, as the left does today, a desire for war or for the victory of Saddam Hussein?

A. It's simply folly. It is unrealistic. The war must end as quickly as possible with the fall of the regime of Saddam Hussein. A war has started and after soldiers have been killed and exposed like trophies, we cannot simply say that it was all a joke. Why should the dictator stay in his place, stronger than ever? That is, quite frankly, something we cannot propose:

Q. You said that only a miracle could bring a sudden end to the war. What miracle?

A. The exile of Saddam Hussein and the fall of his tyranny.

Q. The Italian EU Presidency starts on July 1. You have pointed to four priorities. The first: the new European Constitution. What is it for?

A. We need to create a Constitutional Treaty that will serve the people. In a Europe of 15 that is expanded to twenty-five States, we need a mechanism that avoids the strain of gruelling discussions, with veto power, that do not lead to or delay decisions. A new treaty is needed to give Europe a single voice in the world and guarantee rapid decisions to European citizens.

Q. Second priority: to reinforce the historic ties between Europe and the United States, a relationship that is going through bad times due to the different visions on the war.

A. This is an important challenge. We must not forget that the historic alliance with the United States is a benefit. Europe must not grow in opposition to the US but with it. Italy is a country that strongly believes in Europe and is a friend of the States. For that reason, we can act as a bridge.

Q. You stated that you are deeply disappointed in the attitude of the left. Do you really think they are hoping that the Italian Presidency will fail?

A. I'm disappointed and taken aback, because I have not had a single word, gesture, or signal from any exponent of the left of their concrete desire to work for the success of the Italian Presidency. That is very serious, because it is not the Presidency of this Government, it is the Italian Presidency.

Q. The Middle East is another priority. Did you know that there is a videogame on a pacifist no-global web site where a Palestinian kamikaze blows himself up and the person who kills the most Israelis wins?

A. That is indecent and terrible upsetting, because it is inciting people, young people in particular to play with violent death. It is a disgrace that dishonours whoever invented the game and whoever put it on line.

Q. Is Saddam Hussein linked to international terrorism?

A. We have some important elements but no certain proof. For example, training camps for terrorist groups near Al Qaeda were just hit. These terrorists were responsible for serious attacks in Iran, they were protected by Saddam Hussein and their bases were in Iraq.

Q. Are the liberation of Iraq and peace in the Middle East two sides of the same coin?

A. We have to give our Arab friends concrete proof that Europe wants to be the propelling factor in the region's peace process. We want them to know that Western culture must communicate with Arab and Moslem culture. We want to work with the Israelis and the Palestinians to accelerate the peace process. It is an important signal of stability for the entire region.

Q. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has proposed a new "Marshall Plan". What does that mean?

A. It is a plan for the reconstruction of the region's political, social and economic fabric. The Palestinians need it, but so do the Israelis. It would provide a framework of stability to bring help and development. It is most important for young Palestinians who today have no future. They have to understand that there is no need for them to be kamikazes and die, that they can live long, prosperous lives.

As of August 2006, Iraq Watch is no longer being updated. Click here for more information.

Search WMD profiles Iraqi entities of concern Iraq's suppliers UN documents Government documents Controlled items Perspectives	'Saddam has violated all the rules and persecuted his people' INTERVIEW WITH FRANCO FRATTINI ITALIAN FOREIGN MINISTER ITALIAN MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS March 29, 2003 Q. Is Italy a country at war? A. Certainly not Italy. We want peace and we respect our international commitments. Q. Does Italy have it in for the Iraqis? A. Absolutely not. If anything, we have it in for Saddam Hussein, a bloodthirsty dictator who murdered Iraqi children with chemical weapons. Q. Part of the left, the Democratic Party of the Left (DS) and the Communists, argue that Bush and Saddam are the same thing, since they are both murderers. A. That is an obscenity. Saddam Hussein has violated all the rules of international law, starting with the most important: he has used weapons against his own people and reduced them to hunger. Instead, Bush is the President of a State that has and is bringing freedom to the world. Q. Footballer Gianluca Vialli has said that without America, people would be speaking German in Europe today. A. There's no doubt about it. There are thousands of American boys who gave their lives to free us from Nazism. I was born afterwards, but that is engraved in my mind. It's something that all Italians should remember. Q. Is this war legitimate, or not? A. It is, because we mustn't forget that Saddam Hussein violated sixteen UN resolutions over the last twelve years, making a mockery of international consensus. The last resolution, number 1441, provided for "serious consequences" should Iraq fail to disarm. Saddam has indeed refused, and he possesses chemical weapons and weapons of mass destruction. This crisis is his responsibility. Q. Over the last few days, about a thousand American parachutists left for Kurdistan from an American base on Italian territory. DS MP Luciano Violante calls that an act of co-belligerence. A. Those are the only arguments the opposition knows how to use. What should we have done? Arrest them and put them in prison? Let's be serious. The Italian Parliament voted to authorise use of the bases. The parachutists left to take over airports where there are not even any war operations. The Government will respond to Parliament next week. We have nothing to hide. Q. Are the recent peace demonstrations helping peace or helping Saddam Hussein? A. They certainly didn't help to disarm Iraq, because Saddam didn't disarm when he saw them. I love peace, like all sensible people in this world. But I would have liked to see some signs or banners in those demonstration saying that Saddam Hussein is a murderous dictator. Q. Why, in all the 35 years of dictatorship in Iraq, didn't the left ever hold a demonstration against Saddam Hussein? A. You'll have to ask the left, where there are some who even say that Saddam and Bush are the same thing. I have a great deal of respect for demonstrations and for the young people who take part. But I am offended that these demonstrations are exploited by those hoping to glean a few votes at election time. The desire for peace is a noble sentiment that lives in all of us and should not be exploited. We cannot use it for base political ends, printing posters with the candidate's face and the rainbow colours of the peace flag next to it. I too say "long live peace", but I don't use it as a slogan to buy votes. Q. Marcello Pera, President of the Senate, has been reiterating his concern over a new wave of anti-Americanism for weeks. A. He's perfectly right. Much of the opposition is permeated with anti-American feeling. I remember a demonstration twenty years ago to get rid of American bases and to refuse installation of Euro-missiles to defend Italian territory where Soviet missiles were pointed. Today, the old left of twenty years is being resurrected, and what concerns me the most is the absence of the voice of a reformist left, the left that was at the Government until two years ago. Where have all the reformists gone? Q. That left sent many of our soldiers into war without UN approval. Today, they use that as a banner. A. That's right. Kosovo was bombed without any decision on the part of the United Nations. And when we were part of the opposition in Parliament, we voted in favour, giving the D'Alema government a majority of votes that it otherwise would have been without. The point was to free the former Yugoslavia from the tyranny of Milosevic and his ethnic cleaning. We behaved like Italians back then. But where is the left that was at the government? I no longer see it. Q. How can one be against Saddam Hussein and in favour of peace? A. Being in favour of peace means freeing the Iraqi people. It means restoring their country to them after the dictatorship falls. The left calls it a war for oil. I might point out that the US is self-sufficient in terms of oil supplies, and that 75% of Iraqi oil is purchased by France and 20% by Russia. More than their love of peace, it would seem that France and Russia are against the war because they are afraid of losing their friendly supplier. The truth is that oil has nothing to do with this. The Coalition wants to free Iraq. All it wants is simply to put an end to the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein and leave the Iraqi people free to choose their leaders. Furthermore, says the left, it is a war for the sale of arms. I might point out that, from 1973 to 1991, Russia sold 31,800 million dollars worth of arms to Saddam, France sold 9,240 million dollars, China sold 5,500 million and American only 5 million. Again, more than love of peace, it seems to be desperation for the loss of an excellent customer. No one will ever convince me that the United States and Great Britain went to risk the lives of their young men and women for business. And I repeat: all they want to do is to end a bloodthirsty dictatorship. Q. Italy has just expelled four Iraqi diplomats. A. According to Massimo D'Alema, we were following orders from the Americans. D'Alema was Prime Minister, but I think he has forgotten what running the government means. Since the world began, diplomats who carry out unwelcome activities incompatible with their rank as diplomats have always been expelled. Q. Were they spies? A. Their activities compromised the security of the country, as our secret services had been telling us for some time. Italy invited those people to leave the country, in the same way that Germany, Austria and Finland recently did, even though they are countries that have declared themselves against the war. Q. Is demanding the end of the war while it is still going on, as the left does today, a desire for war or for the victory of Saddam Hussein? A. It's simply folly. It is unrealistic. The war must end as quickly as possible with the fall of the regime of Saddam Hussein. A war has started and after soldiers have been killed and exposed like trophies, we cannot simply say that it was all a joke. Why should the dictator stay in his place, stronger than ever? That is, quite frankly, something we cannot propose: Q. You said that only a miracle could bring a sudden end to the war. What miracle? A. The exile of Saddam Hussein and the fall of his tyranny. Q. The Italian EU Presidency starts on July 1. You have pointed to four priorities. The first: the new European Constitution. What is it for? A. We need to create a Constitutional Treaty that will serve the people. In a Europe of 15 that is expanded to twenty-five States, we need a mechanism that avoids the strain of gruelling discussions, with veto power, that do not lead to or delay decisions. A new treaty is needed to give Europe a single voice in the world and guarantee rapid decisions to European citizens. Q. Second priority: to reinforce the historic ties between Europe and the United States, a relationship that is going through bad times due to the different visions on the war. A. This is an important challenge. We must not forget that the historic alliance with the United States is a benefit. Europe must not grow in opposition to the US but with it. Italy is a country that strongly believes in Europe and is a friend of the States. For that reason, we can act as a bridge. Q. You stated that you are deeply disappointed in the attitude of the left. Do you really think they are hoping that the Italian Presidency will fail? A. I'm disappointed and taken aback, because I have not had a single word, gesture, or signal from any exponent of the left of their concrete desire to work for the success of the Italian Presidency. That is very serious, because it is not the Presidency of this Government, it is the Italian Presidency. Q. The Middle East is another priority. Did you know that there is a videogame on a pacifist no-global web site where a Palestinian kamikaze blows himself up and the person who kills the most Israelis wins? A. That is indecent and terrible upsetting, because it is inciting people, young people in particular to play with violent death. It is a disgrace that dishonours whoever invented the game and whoever put it on line. Q. Is Saddam Hussein linked to international terrorism? A. We have some important elements but no certain proof. For example, training camps for terrorist groups near Al Qaeda were just hit. These terrorists were responsible for serious attacks in Iran, they were protected by Saddam Hussein and their bases were in Iraq. Q. Are the liberation of Iraq and peace in the Middle East two sides of the same coin? A. We have to give our Arab friends concrete proof that Europe wants to be the propelling factor in the region's peace process. We want them to know that Western culture must communicate with Arab and Moslem culture. We want to work with the Israelis and the Palestinians to accelerate the peace process. It is an important signal of stability for the entire region. Q. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has proposed a new "Marshall Plan". What does that mean? A. It is a plan for the reconstruction of the region's political, social and economic fabric. The Palestinians need it, but so do the Israelis. It would provide a framework of stability to bring help and development. It is most important for young Palestinians who today have no future. They have to understand that there is no need for them to be kamikazes and die, that they can live long, prosperous lives.